Thursday 18 January 2007

Project #1: Eve-Online Trading Tool

Eve-Online is an online game set in space. If that doesn't sound like your thing, don't worry, Project #2 is going to be a beautifully-simple tool for software developers. Maybe #3 will be a novel, or a rose garden. Who knows?

Edit: One year on, here's the latest revision of NavBot! If you'd like to read about why I wrote it, please carry on...

There are several trading tools for Eve, and none of them are particularly good. Here's why:
  1. They can't export the market data for fifty different items for me while I get a cup of tea.
  2. Some of them require me to share my market reports with the rest of the internet, which means any profitable routes attract immediate attention from other traders.
  3. They don't find the best routes - specifically they don't seem to aggregate items of the same type but varying prices, which gives them an artificially-low volume and means the most profitable routes can stay at the bottom of the list split into half a dozen different trades.
  4. They ask the wrong questions and give too many answers. There are two important questions that any budding trader might have, and neither needs me to browse through combo boxes or interact with HTML lists. I'll come back to the questions later.
  5. They're not individual enough. The most profitable route for me depends on the amount of cargo space my ship has and how much money I have to spend. It also depends where I am. A good trade finder needs to take all of this into account.

What does it do?
There are two kinds of trading in Eve. You can either speculate on the market by placing lots of buy and sell orders - buying when something is cheap and selling when it is expensive - or you can cart things from A to B - buying where something is cheap and selling where it is expensive.

This tool tells you which items you can take from A to B to make profit as quickly as possible.

More specifically, it answers the two most common questions I ever have as a trader:

  1. Which are the most profitable trade routes for me right now?
  2. I'm at A and am going to B; can I make a profit on the way?
The form of the answers is not necessarily trivial, nor can it always be a simple ranked list. For example, when I ask to see the most profitable trade routes then I also want to know how far they are away from where I am now, and whether they are in high-security or low-security space. I need to see both, because perhaps this time I'll decide it's worth the risk to make 400% profit. Maybe I'm keen to travel half-way across the galaxy to get to a really profitable area or maybe I'm happy here because my corp headquarters is nearby. These are interesting, even fun choices to make. This is called the game. The algorithm can play at Excel, but I want to be the one playing spaceship captain!

Instead of putting up more details now, I'll put up the first release and you can see what I mean for yourself.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Your assessement of the actual issues facing a trading gamer is spot on. I'm impressed. I'll download your tool tonight and give it a go.

nim TsuNim

OpenCloud said...

Thanks, I hope you enjoy it! You'll need Windows XP SP2 or 2003 (or presumably Vista) to run it, as we've recently found out... other than that there's a couple of teething problems I'd like to fix before we get stuck into the really cool features. Let me know how it goes!

Anonymous said...

I like your tool it is the best out there for ease of use and giving you just what you need although i have noticed every hour i need to clean the reports down and start again cos the items start disapearing from other people buying them.
If you are wanting to add soemthing to it maybe a way to shar the market exports with just your friends using Navbot so more market reports kep just between your group?

OpenCloud said...

Thanks Large, I'm glad you like the tool! You're right - sharing information with friends / corp mates would be a nice extra feature. I'll add it to the list over at the google code site!

Robert Cockburn said...

I am looking for the download link and not finding it. Am I blind or did it get removed?

OpenCloud said...

Adhiza: the download link is in later posts in the blog. It's also available at the google code project page: http://code.google.com/p/navbot/

Happy Trading!

Anonymous said...

Thanks,
I found it after making this post. Messed around with it and one point of feedback.

If you could find a way to calculate what the taxes on the sale might be and be able to show a projected net profit that would be the last link in the chain. I went on a run that should have netted me 700k but because of taxes I I did not even net half that.

Otherwise, great tool.

OpenCloud said...

Hi Adhiza,

Glad you found the donwload. You're quite right about the taxes - this is on the list of things to do! If you've got any C# programming skills, you're welcome to join the open source project and add the feature yourself! :-)

Anonymous said...

A great tool! Has already saved me hours of analyzing data trying to find the "best" route.

I would include the download link in this post. I almost didn't bother looking for it. Glad I did!

OpenCloud said...

Thanks Wormbrain, I've added a link to the top of the post. I guess a Famous Search Engine is directing people to this post and not to any of the more recent ones...

Robert Cockburn said...

opencloud,
Just thought something for taxes, if all selling prices were multiplied by 10% and then that amount removed from profit that would make for a good profit calculation. So as a formula it would be (([Sell Price] * [Sell Amount])- ([Sell Price] * [Sell Amount]* 0.10)) - ([Buy Price] * [Buy Amount])

Anonymous said...

thank you very much, at first impression it is the most useful tool in eve for traders. i'll try it out tonight. thx

Anonymous said...

thank you very much, at first impression it is the most useful tool in eve for traders. i'll try it out tonight. thx

Anonymous said...

Is this application legal in the game rules? I just ask becasue of the rather unfortunate naming of 'BOT'

OpenCloud said...

Hi Anon,

Yes, NavBot is entirely legal. It's simply an IGB application and doesn't intefere with EVE in any way. The 'bot' in NavBot comes from the way it presents itself in game terms - it 'talks' to you as if it were a navigation bot in your pod :-)

jason said...

ok, i'm not an idiot, though it seems at themoment i am.

i've installed the navbot and had it locate my market logs and its sitting nicely in the system tray with two options when i rclick it - exit and choose eve export directory.
i'm running eve and have no clue as how to implement the navbot into the eve browser or anything. can someone please give assitance? cheers. (jasonblatch@hotmail.com)

OpenCloud said...

Hi Jason,

Try the quick start guide at http://code.google.com/p/navbot/wiki/QuickStartGuide - it should help you get going.

jason said...

hi, thanks for the response. I'm using navbot and it's brilliant!!!

I have a question though. How can I install it and run it from a shortcut on the destop and how do I instal it so it stays installed. When I want to play Eve, if I search for the exe file it's in some far off folder and only seems to run once.
At the moment I have to run the installer each time I want to use it and then have to do a start/search/navbot to find the exe file after reinstalling it again.
I've tried to create a shortcut of the exe file to the destop but I've found the exe will only run with a right click 'run as administrator', which can't be done with the shortcut.

What I want to have is a link icon on my desktop to run navbot, but no matter how I've tried it seems I can't. Any help?

cheers jason.

jason said...

oh, and i'd be quite happy to donate some ISK to the developer or who ever as a thank you. for the program not just the help.

OpenCloud said...

Hi Jason,

I'm pleased you're enjoying NavBot! Head on over to http://code.google.com/p/navbot/issues/list - now that NavBot is open source, the best way you can say thank-you and help is by writing about your problems there, so that everyone can see them and their solution on one place.

That said, you could try simply copying NavBot.exe and the two dll files from the same directory to your desktop and running it from there. In the long-term, we should be able to modify the manifest so that NavBot always requests admin rights from Vista (which it needs to run the local web server).

Happy trading!

OpenCloud said...

Update: at http://code.google.com/p/navbot/issues/detail?id=15 joetrader suggests:

"If you locate the application file (not the shortcut), you can set "Run as Admin" in
its properties. Issue solved."

Once you've set that property, you can use a shortcut to the application.

jason said...

oh and, will it one day have the ability to read a players assets details and link them to profitable markets? I have multiple buy orders which result in a purchase about once every 2mins which adds up to alot of assets over a 20 jump radius but knowing where best to sell them is the crunch. Navbot seems perfectly positioned to import the asset data and configure such info against the sabed market logs.

just a thought.

cheers
jason.

Unknown said...

how can i download the tool?

OpenCloud said...

Dizzy: you can get it from here. Happy trading!

Marcel said...

They can't export the market data for fifty different items for me while I get a cup of tea.

Can NavBot do this? I was unable to find anything like it.

Otherwise, great tool - I just started using it but I like it!

OpenCloud said...

No, sadly it can't. I did manage to macro this with AutoHotKey (in fact, you can macro trading entirely with a modified Navbot and AutoHotKey) but that's against the TOC. The right thing is for an Export All/Favourites button to be added to support legit traders who simply want to enjoy playing!

Anonymous said...

I have been playing eve on and off for years, it never dissapoints me how satisfying working the market is. Even after blowing up hundreds of enemy ships and having great gear I return to simple trading because it is so fun. Still really need an export all feature....:(